Final Posting on "We and I" music... for now?
This is the edited version of what Ben has sent me. My response follows.
Hey Ya
I actually don’t disagree with any of this – I think there is an inherent weakness in taking the “I” model too far, but I think the same about taking “we” too far as well. In fact if you’d just simple said
Yes, we as individuals need to respond and make it out own, and so we need the “I” songs, but they need to be put into the context of us as God’s community
In your blog then I would have been in complete agreement – a balance that allows for individual ownership of a relationship with God as a member of all of God’s people both living and departed.
We actually facilitate this by
a) writing songs that reflect “we” (like - We want to walk with you or Almighty God…which is actually just from the prayerbook) cos to be honest there aren’t that many good “we” songs out there
b) Changing songs that can easily be changed such as Jesus be the centre (be OUR source…) and “Open the eyes of OUR heart”
However I also think that young people find a great sense of community by singing their personal commitment in amongst a crowd of people doing the same. It feels real, it’s feels committed, it feels like community. Like a U2 concert. I do feel somewhat that you are trying to provide an answer a question that no one is asking and disregarding the way that young people build a sense of community even through singing “I” songs. The proof is in the pudding of the wonderful sense of community that springs up at camps like RR in spite of or even perhaps because of the songs sung. And with some of your other criticisms of the camp I feel like you either missed or weren’t there for important parts and then criticised the camp for not having the things you missed
This has been a bit of a rushed response cos I’m dashing off on Holiday, but I hope that explains somewhat….
Ben
Hi Ben
Thanks.
Just for the record, I was at every worship but one, when one of the leaders wanted to talk to me. So I feel I am on reasonably solid ground. We used “we” rarely. It was wonderful when we did.
I think there is a fundamental difference between a U2 concert and worship. I love U2, and really enjoyed the sense of community at the concert. But we were a group of individuals who just happened to be at the concert together. Being followers of Christ is a much different thing. The Proverb I put up captures it… “We are, therefore I am”. I am not an individual but a member of the body of Christ. So I suggest it is really risky to rely on a concert feeling of community to inform that when a lot of our words emphasise my being an individual. My experience is that it is the words that stick, and shape our understanding, not the setting we sang the words in.
This is my last comment on this. I suspect people are bored. But I invite people to think about what kind of theology and understanding about being a Christian they want young to develop, and to explore the words of the songs to see how well they either support or undermine that theology.
Hey Ya
I actually don’t disagree with any of this – I think there is an inherent weakness in taking the “I” model too far, but I think the same about taking “we” too far as well. In fact if you’d just simple said
Yes, we as individuals need to respond and make it out own, and so we need the “I” songs, but they need to be put into the context of us as God’s community
In your blog then I would have been in complete agreement – a balance that allows for individual ownership of a relationship with God as a member of all of God’s people both living and departed.
We actually facilitate this by
a) writing songs that reflect “we” (like - We want to walk with you or Almighty God…which is actually just from the prayerbook) cos to be honest there aren’t that many good “we” songs out there
b) Changing songs that can easily be changed such as Jesus be the centre (be OUR source…) and “Open the eyes of OUR heart”
However I also think that young people find a great sense of community by singing their personal commitment in amongst a crowd of people doing the same. It feels real, it’s feels committed, it feels like community. Like a U2 concert. I do feel somewhat that you are trying to provide an answer a question that no one is asking and disregarding the way that young people build a sense of community even through singing “I” songs. The proof is in the pudding of the wonderful sense of community that springs up at camps like RR in spite of or even perhaps because of the songs sung. And with some of your other criticisms of the camp I feel like you either missed or weren’t there for important parts and then criticised the camp for not having the things you missed
This has been a bit of a rushed response cos I’m dashing off on Holiday, but I hope that explains somewhat….
Ben
Hi Ben
Thanks.
Just for the record, I was at every worship but one, when one of the leaders wanted to talk to me. So I feel I am on reasonably solid ground. We used “we” rarely. It was wonderful when we did.
I think there is a fundamental difference between a U2 concert and worship. I love U2, and really enjoyed the sense of community at the concert. But we were a group of individuals who just happened to be at the concert together. Being followers of Christ is a much different thing. The Proverb I put up captures it… “We are, therefore I am”. I am not an individual but a member of the body of Christ. So I suggest it is really risky to rely on a concert feeling of community to inform that when a lot of our words emphasise my being an individual. My experience is that it is the words that stick, and shape our understanding, not the setting we sang the words in.
This is my last comment on this. I suspect people are bored. But I invite people to think about what kind of theology and understanding about being a Christian they want young to develop, and to explore the words of the songs to see how well they either support or undermine that theology.
Comments