Response to Ben
Thanks Ben.
This is what I am hoping this blog will do at times, and that is encourage people to take my up on my outrageous statements.
First off, I clearly have overstated my case. I am not even remotely interested in having an "I vs. We" debate. I believe that both are needed for all the reasons you laid out Ben. That is my real issue, that I attend event after event and all we ever sign is "I songs". We need more we songs, and we need songs that are both I and we. It isn't that hard to write them, I change the words of songs all the time to we, and it works. Sometimes I just change the chorus words, sometimes just the verse words.
Now, I really can't let Ben get away with some of what he said.
Yes Scripture uses "I", as do a lot of our great hymns and prayers. But to intimate that the Hebrew Scriptures only use "I" is false. Their great creedal statements of identity all use we. "We were slaves in Egypt...." Again and again these creeds are recited at major festivals. Prayers using we are chanted every Sabbath. Yes the Psalms use I a lot, but that is only a small part of their prayer life, and the "we" part is just as important, if not more important. But the biggest thing for me is the prayer Jesus taught us. It begins "Our Father..." Our! I am going to go with Jesus on this one, sorry Ben.
I really did not understand you logic on individualism coming out of using "We" language. Partly because in fact the Book of Common Prayer and as I said a lot of our hymns use "I" language. I am often intrigued when I hear Christian speakers bemoan our individualistic culture without any hint that we helped create it with our language. If I constantly talk in terms of "God and Me" (which our music does) then I am going to believe it is about God and Me. then church becomes much less important, because it is up to God and me, so if I choose not to go, because life is too busy or because I don't agree with the preacher, that is ok, because it is really about God and me. And so many people over the years have seen church as an optional extra, or even a hindrance. And that is in part because we have kept on with "I" language, and through our hymns and songs and liturgy reinforced the message that is it about God an Me. But the Bible is really clear on this; it is not about God and me, but about God and God's community, of which I am a part. Yes, we as individuals need to respond and make it out own, and so we need the “I” songs, but they need to be put into the context of us as God’s community. It is not all about me and God, not by a long shot!
The problem is not the "I" language, but the sole use of "I" language.
Finally, as I have said before on this blog, music is very important, because it is what really shapes peoples theology. We don't remember all the great talks really. But we do remember the music, because it is repeated often, and with the tune it sticks. When my dad died, it was not all the great sermons and youth group teachings I thought of. It was a Larry Norman song. It shaped my response to this event. John and Charles Wesley realised this, and they made sure that it was their theology that shaped the hymns they used, which is why Methodists are known as people who sing their theology.
Music is a most powerful tool for shaping people's world view and understanding of God and he Christian life. So please, can we have some balance. Can we please please please have songs that use "We"! The risks are too great to not!
Finally Ben thanks. I hope you respond. And thanks for putting your name on the end. It helps me respond.
This is what I am hoping this blog will do at times, and that is encourage people to take my up on my outrageous statements.
First off, I clearly have overstated my case. I am not even remotely interested in having an "I vs. We" debate. I believe that both are needed for all the reasons you laid out Ben. That is my real issue, that I attend event after event and all we ever sign is "I songs". We need more we songs, and we need songs that are both I and we. It isn't that hard to write them, I change the words of songs all the time to we, and it works. Sometimes I just change the chorus words, sometimes just the verse words.
Now, I really can't let Ben get away with some of what he said.
Yes Scripture uses "I", as do a lot of our great hymns and prayers. But to intimate that the Hebrew Scriptures only use "I" is false. Their great creedal statements of identity all use we. "We were slaves in Egypt...." Again and again these creeds are recited at major festivals. Prayers using we are chanted every Sabbath. Yes the Psalms use I a lot, but that is only a small part of their prayer life, and the "we" part is just as important, if not more important. But the biggest thing for me is the prayer Jesus taught us. It begins "Our Father..." Our! I am going to go with Jesus on this one, sorry Ben.
I really did not understand you logic on individualism coming out of using "We" language. Partly because in fact the Book of Common Prayer and as I said a lot of our hymns use "I" language. I am often intrigued when I hear Christian speakers bemoan our individualistic culture without any hint that we helped create it with our language. If I constantly talk in terms of "God and Me" (which our music does) then I am going to believe it is about God and Me. then church becomes much less important, because it is up to God and me, so if I choose not to go, because life is too busy or because I don't agree with the preacher, that is ok, because it is really about God and me. And so many people over the years have seen church as an optional extra, or even a hindrance. And that is in part because we have kept on with "I" language, and through our hymns and songs and liturgy reinforced the message that is it about God an Me. But the Bible is really clear on this; it is not about God and me, but about God and God's community, of which I am a part. Yes, we as individuals need to respond and make it out own, and so we need the “I” songs, but they need to be put into the context of us as God’s community. It is not all about me and God, not by a long shot!
The problem is not the "I" language, but the sole use of "I" language.
Finally, as I have said before on this blog, music is very important, because it is what really shapes peoples theology. We don't remember all the great talks really. But we do remember the music, because it is repeated often, and with the tune it sticks. When my dad died, it was not all the great sermons and youth group teachings I thought of. It was a Larry Norman song. It shaped my response to this event. John and Charles Wesley realised this, and they made sure that it was their theology that shaped the hymns they used, which is why Methodists are known as people who sing their theology.
Music is a most powerful tool for shaping people's world view and understanding of God and he Christian life. So please, can we have some balance. Can we please please please have songs that use "We"! The risks are too great to not!
Finally Ben thanks. I hope you respond. And thanks for putting your name on the end. It helps me respond.
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